Session Start: Sun Mar 17 09:54:52 2013 Session Ident: #kolibrios [09:55:09] * Attempting to rejoin channel #kolibrios [09:55:15] * Rejoined channel #kolibrios [09:55:15] * Topic is 'KolibriOS - http://kolibrios.org/ - version 0.7.7.0' [09:55:15] * Set by mikedld on Fri Oct 21 18:59:18 [09:55:16] #kolibrios url is http://kolibrios.org/ [09:55:16] -ChanServ- [#netsurf] Welcome to the NetSurf development discussion channel. [09:55:54] * one[coding] has joined #kolibrios [11:57:41] * Gravi has joined #kolibrios [12:00:50] asiekierka: Sounds like an interesting proposition [12:01:07] I think right now, when someone needs to find out how stuff works they look at either the code or syscalls.txt [12:01:16] not how stuff works [12:01:25] discussions, drivers, applications [12:02:05] Well, there haven't been enough of them to warrant one (Or have there been?) [12:02:24] Probably a good idea to make one anyway though [12:25:08] * Gravi has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [12:28:41] FreeFull: well [12:28:45] a lot of links i found are dead [12:30:59] * one[coding] has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [12:37:03] * Gravi has joined #kolibrios [12:48:11] * spaceraven has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) [13:54:45] * Gravi has quit IRC (Quit: Saliendo) [15:07:36] asiekierka: this is because most of devs are speak russian [15:07:43] i know [15:07:46] most devs are russian themselves [15:07:52] but the problem is, if we want it to be more international [15:07:56] we have to make more english content [15:07:58] asiekierka: though it is better to fill wiki [15:08:09] i was considering an application repository thing [15:08:12] like a package manager but simpler [15:08:15] and with a GUI interface [15:08:41] are you sure, that you need package manager for so tiny system? ;) [15:08:51] not a package manager per se [15:08:55] more like an application download site [15:08:59] with a list of all applications [15:09:05] for kolibri and menuet32 as i think it's compatible [15:09:15] not much [15:09:17] as well as a list of libraries for ktcc [15:09:20] but good idea [15:09:24] that way we could make more programs [15:09:31] as we would have C libraries in one place [15:09:35] so we could compile other software easily [15:10:30] it is better to sound this idea on board, in English part [15:10:56] right [15:11:16] because most of disacussions/ppl are on board [15:12:43] also a list of supported devices on the wiki [15:13:11] drivers, you mean? [15:13:14] yes [15:13:21] and what hardware they are for [15:13:28] i see [15:14:00] i guess i'll make one [15:14:31] . . . no registration on the wiki? :< [15:14:35] wait [15:14:47] it is temporarily disabled [15:14:56] i'll enable it rigbht now [15:15:06] or you could add a mediawiki plugin [15:15:12] to have all registrations be accepted by moderator [15:15:16] or administrator [15:16:36] there were such plugins, captcha, etc [15:16:50] too much time to fight bots/spam [15:17:22] try now [15:17:57] okay, registering [15:18:32] thanks [15:18:36] xvilka: you can disable it now, thanks [15:18:45] you're welcome [15:23:49] are the Kolibri DRM drivers based on the Linux ones? [15:23:55] as in video/drm [15:24:04] yes [15:24:26] they're too complex to write from scratch [15:24:32] that's good [15:24:35] that way you get a lot more compatibility [15:25:35] also the drivers in the "old" folder [15:25:37] are they still used? [15:25:45] i'd guess not [15:26:19] haha, yes, you right [15:28:47] so it turns out Kolibri supports all the hardware i have [15:29:54] nice [15:33:45] i want to join because i believe it could actually be a usable OS, it just needs more... organization [15:34:46] only thing it doesn't is RTL8168 [15:38:08] xvilka: http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Drivers [15:38:39] i'll go check the forums too [15:43:10] asiekierka: could it be that rtl8169 is compatible with rtl8168? [15:43:24] no [15:43:32] RTL8168/8111 is a Gigabit Ethernet PCI-Express card [15:43:46] RTL8169 is compatible with RTL8110 [15:44:01] okay [15:44:11] though some say RTL8168 works with 8169 [15:44:20] i can test, i just need to find the best way to install Kolibri on my computer [15:44:24] what do you recommend? [15:45:05] there is another page on wiki (http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Hardware_Support/ru) mentioning rtl8168 as working [15:45:26] RTL8111/8168B explicitly [15:45:36] hmm [15:45:49] it would be nice to find which RTLs exactly work and add it to the list [15:45:51] and which drivers cause it [15:46:06] i'll test in a moment [15:46:07] just to make sure [15:46:37] i still am thinking how to boot Kolibri on my computer best [15:46:44] USB pendrive would be best, that or a partition on my SATA SSD [15:46:45] and you would also want to test the kernel from network branch [15:47:40] i want to try the daily build tbh, see if it works for general users [15:47:43] but first [15:47:56] i need to install kolibri [15:48:24] oh, i found a method [15:57:24] *sigh* [15:57:34] i have enabled usb mouse and keyboard support in bios [15:57:43] and it doesnt work in kolibri [15:57:49] i wonder if its grub2's fault [16:01:46] time to fiddle with usb flssh [16:03:51] thats not it [16:03:55] hmm [16:04:00] it might be using a usb hub [16:06:40] that was not it [16:06:42] odd [16:06:45] any ideas? [16:06:59] keys dont seem to work either [16:08:34] but legacy kbd/mouse support is enabled [16:38:46] also when is clevermouse's usb code going to be integrated? [16:39:49] asiekierka: about USB - currently supporting is only USB1.1 controllers [16:40:06] i noticed [16:40:13] i am going to try clevermouse's thing now [16:40:24] but EHCI/USB2.0 is already testing -> use google translate and see Drivers->Peripheral->Testing USB support [16:40:29] good [16:44:55] yes [16:44:59] works out of the box [16:45:10] everything runs perfectly :) [16:45:21] usbstorage works as well [16:45:41] only thing i noticed - no scrollwheel in eolite [16:46:35] it does detect my card but zeroconfig does not work [16:48:30] also another thing to do nice would be .5 pointer speeds [16:48:32] like 1.5 [16:48:38] 2 is too fast, 1 is too slow [16:54:49] i cant get ethernet working [16:55:00] card status x816810EC [16:55:25] the MAC is detected too [16:55:33] but nothing from there really works [16:55:42] neither manual config nor zeroconfig [17:03:03] kolibrios is nice but needs a lot in the way of UI [17:03:17] and i'm willing to help [17:04:49] >PC speaker MIDI [17:04:53] that was a surprise [17:06:00] feel free to write code ;) [17:31:45] * pfcode has joined #kolibrios [17:41:49] xvilka: any idea why zeroconf does not work? [17:42:13] or manual conf, but the card is detected properly [17:44:16] asiekierka: ask hidnplayr, and try network branch before [17:45:15] xvilka: but i use the usb branch to run mouse and keyboard [17:45:24] do i need to use clevermouse's kernel.mnt? [17:47:54] hm, it is different from network [17:48:22] and i cannot use kolibri w/o the usb brancn [17:48:32] i think you should start integrating both to the kernel, rrally [17:48:35] ask clevermouse build new kernel with usb patches, but based on network branch [17:48:36] really* [17:48:57] say it to hidnplayr ;) [17:49:17] *this [17:50:38] same with usb tho [17:51:32] take a usb kernel with network patches and call it "unstable" [17:51:35] usb still under heavy development, and not yet complete [17:51:36] asking CleverMouse to actually show community the code is a better idea IMHO. never liked closed development in open source world [17:51:41] and call the current daily "stable-ish" [17:52:03] BTW, I may have found a defect in kernel. it seems to me that kernel.asm:4745 should test edx, not ecx [17:53:46] xvilka: but couldnt we just integrate the HID code itself? [17:53:53] it would help compatibility a lot [17:54:23] asiekierka: nope, HID is only smallest part of whole USB stack [17:54:39] yes but does it break compatibility with anything [17:54:45] as in [17:54:45] the entire usb stack [17:54:52] nope [17:55:01] so why not include it [17:55:06] it breaks nothing and helps many [17:55:15] because it is not yet finished :) [17:55:31] neither are daily builds, technically [17:56:03] uhm, anyway, i can't give right answer - better to ask CleverMouse for that ;) [17:57:18] xvilka: that's not a valid justification, and you know it. the closed way USB development is going is wrong, that's what is preventing such unstable builds to happen [17:57:34] and people would appreciate it [17:57:44] it may be unfinished, but kolibri as a whole is "unfinished" [17:57:54] if it lets kolibri run on a lot more hardware [17:58:01] and doesnt break anything [17:58:03] mikedld: i know it, but can't open it - i'm not an author [17:58:06] why not let it be easier to download [17:58:19] also more debug logs [17:58:50] mikedld: this is why there is my attempt to write usb drivers - see usb thread [17:58:58] *was [18:00:18] xvilka: the situation has nothing to do with you indeed. OTOH your way of handling it isn't good either, since HLL stuff is even worse than closed development, at least for Kolibri, at least in my opinion [18:00:53] mikedld: HLL stuff is good for things such as video drivers [18:00:58] because lets face it [18:01:12] writing your own graphics drivers is a waste of dev resources [18:02:04] asiekierka: I have my POV, you will never prove me otherwise. Kolibri, and Menuet, were asembly-only just-for-fun systems from the beginning. what happened to both later on is a shame [18:02:04] also what HLL stuff? [18:02:14] mikedld: hm? I was writing usb drivers on asm [18:02:31] just translating them from ready-made on C [18:02:58] and already working/verified stack [18:03:48] xvilka: okay, so I hope you are actually translating it, and not using compiler-generated code as Serge does. is your code open to inspect and test? [18:04:06] see http://board.kolibrios.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1033&start=135 [18:04:12] * one[coding] has joined #kolibrios [18:04:52] mikedld: the point is kolibri got to a wonderful stage [18:04:57] you can actually use it as an OS [18:06:07] also compiler code is in some cases faster than handwritten code [18:06:08] or just http://board.kolibrios.org/download/file.php?id=3575 [18:06:10] and that is a fact [18:06:55] asiekierka: only if optimized :) HLL code should be optimized too [18:07:27] xvilka: well, that's good, on one hand. on the other, you're duplicating the efforts which could've been spent on what CleverMouse does. and the fact C code working/verified does, sadly, tell nothing in regards to the assembly code you are writing [18:08:55] mikedld: it is just algo: do that, then that, etc, or could be functional diagram/state machine (most of USB just state machines) [18:09:01] asiekierka: sorry, I'm not a part of community to argue. I'd like to tell I don't care about Kolibri any longer, but still I do in some, mostly disappointish, way [18:09:13] mikedld: so it doesn't matter from language [18:09:19] mikedld: Oh [18:09:31] Well, I saw Menuet32 a few years ago [18:09:35] mikedld: i've stopped this, after talking with CleverMouse [18:09:39] And back then it was just a tou [18:09:40] toy [18:09:58] As a matter of fact, I want to help Kolibri enough to use it as an OS on a dailt basis [18:10:00] xvilka: it does matter not because of language, but because it's still a newly written code, not matter what [18:10:07] because it's so freaking fast [18:11:07] and supports all my hardware except printer [18:11:11] mikedld: of course it have bugs, but only implementation bugs, not generic algo bugs [18:11:50] most of usb stuff is about trees and delays [18:12:10] so just fill/run them correctly - and enjoy working code [18:12:28] thhough even parts of them not really documented [18:12:54] so you need a lot of trial&error steps [18:15:22] i've ever seen BIOS/UEFI USB stack crashes on some combination of usb hubs, hids, and mass storage devices :) [18:15:39] on various Intel boards [18:19:43] asiekierka: what I feel about Menuet and Kolibri is that they were meant to stay toys. they are hobby systems, and as good as it sounds to actually get something back from that hobby, like letting people use it and thank you for your work, this kind of attitude, IMHO, ruins the essentials of it. for me, Kolibri was a way to relax in the end of the day and code something in assembly, this very much powerful and simple, but (let's face it) dead languag [18:19:43] e, making me geek-alike (which some people like to be). and HLLs are just... they just don't belong here. I code in about several of HLL languages at work, that's the way I earn money, and I don't need this at home. hope you understand [18:23:11] mikedld: i do [18:23:32] thats not the point though [18:23:50] kolibri was already very close to be a real OS even back then [18:25:05] they are still toys [18:25:08] but the point is [18:25:14] they are very FAST operating systems [18:25:20] and they do all the things most people need [18:25:27] xvilka: would you be so kind and take a look at the potential defect I pointed out earlier? or pass it to someone else please [18:25:50] ok [18:27:25] * pfcode has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [18:29:59] asiekierka: I'd like to know, some time, how many non-assembly apps/drivers/kernel code parts do the things _you_ need specifically. for my own statistics only [18:30:25] mikedld: perhaps a better web browser [18:30:30] also an ssh client [18:30:55] no, I'm talking about already existing stuff [18:31:14] for Kolibri? [18:31:19] yes [18:31:30] drm/radeon [18:31:36] but VESA works good enough [18:32:00] * pfcode has joined #kolibrios [18:34:43] * pfcode has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [18:39:41] okay i admit the usb stack is unstable [18:39:43] the new one [18:39:50] first time worked [18:39:53] second time only mouse [18:39:57] third time neither [18:40:20] and fourth time neither o_o [18:40:29] perhaps im booting the wrong image [18:41:02] nope [18:41:04] thats not it [18:42:08] * pfcode has joined #kolibrios [18:42:09] okay, mouse moves if i move it during the menu screen (whaaat) [18:43:27] and keyboard doesnt [18:45:38] hi there [18:45:48] it worked this time [18:45:57] but i had to mash the keyboard while bootung [18:46:05] If you have troubles with USB, make a detailed log and post it in the USB thread, like some people already did [18:46:49] also, the RTL8168 you have, is it onboard, pci-x, pci, ... ? [18:47:24] onboard [18:48:10] and i cant really test the rtl8168 on the new stack [18:48:20] as my kbd/mouse with legacy bios works on anything but kolibri [18:48:40] also what should i log with [18:50:07] tell when it does work, when it doesnt (what actions you take) and add the debug log [18:50:33] why cant you test new stack? just run it , you need no keyboard/mouse to see if it works [18:50:45] debug board is opened automatically :) [18:51:36] oh [18:53:46] but i'm having some troubles wich causes bugs i cant explain lately :( [18:55:21] but the driver is virtually the same with some added code, it would surprise me if it works there and not in trunk [18:55:36] me too [18:55:41] it detects it and the mac address [18:55:45] just zeroconf doesnt work [18:56:30] so it receives other packets? [18:56:52] and i assume there really is a DHCP server on your network? :) [18:56:56] im not sure [18:57:01] also yes, i use a router lol [18:57:06] ok [18:57:15] i tried fixed and nothing happens that way either [18:57:41] i'll be back in a moment [19:01:34] mikedld: which revision [19:01:43] asiekierka: ok, so how exactly did you test if network works? [19:01:49] mikedld: about test edx/ecx [19:03:43] hidnplayr: set fixed values, check fixed [19:03:49] and find connections do not quite work [19:04:06] oh hang on a sec [19:04:25] it assigned it via zeroconfig AFTER i set it up manually [19:04:29] it may work now [19:06:52] * asiekibri has joined #kolibrios [19:07:25] * asiekibri has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [19:07:52] * asiekibri has joined #kolibrios [19:08:01] AIRC seems to bs broken [19:09:35] * yogev_ezra has joined #kolibrios [19:09:51] hi there yogev_ezra [19:10:00] i got internet working [19:10:06] Suddenly a lot of people in our IRC channel [19:10:56] it's sad no website works in htmlv [19:11:00] asiekierka: you saw my last message? that network should probably work in the latest trunk build [19:11:05] i did [19:11:08] it works [19:11:10] i just had to fiddle more [19:11:32] asiekierka: can you be more specific? [19:11:35] Oh. I see. HTMLv is just a bad browser, but it's the only one we have. [19:11:47] hidnplayr: first i had to set manual gateway/subnet [19:11:51] and THEN run zeroconfig [19:12:24] try running it twice next time, with some pause in between [19:12:30] right [19:12:42] like 30 sec or 1 minute [19:13:11] but now all my hardware runs on kolibri [19:13:13] which is sweet [19:14:16] We plan to submit KolibriOS to Google Summer of Code this year, and also raise money on Kickstarter. Then hopefully we will have enough resources to make KolibriOS support the basic user needs [19:14:44] the priority should be fixing the USB stack IMHO - more and more devices fail at bios emularion [19:14:50] from there, UI work [19:15:15] and a better html browser [19:15:55] all those things are being worked on :) [19:16:01] also an app management system [19:16:03] I hope :p [19:16:11] as in a central source of software [19:16:17] as right now finding software is very messy [19:16:18] * asiekibri has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [19:17:29] how can it be messy, almost every application is on the CD [19:22:01] right now [19:22:05] whp knows if we wont have more [19:27:05] asiekierka: Right now all software EVER written for KolibriOS can be stored in around 50MB space. We need to write 10x times that much just to fill the CD. Then we have DVD :-) [19:28:05] hidnplayr: It seems the chat is unusually active today - can you put the log of the chat from the time you connected to your FTP user on kolibrios server, so I could read it? [19:29:09] yogev_ezra: http://board.kolibrios.org/chatlogs/ [19:29:18] xvilka: trunk [19:29:47] hidnplayr: LOL I meant the IRC chat :-) [19:29:56] ah ok [19:30:13] only todays log, right :p [19:30:22] hidnplayr: right [19:30:26] * Retrieving #kolibrios modes... [19:30:46] mikedld: In the latest trunk we don't have anything remotely close to "test ecx/edx" in line 4745 [20:31] yogev_ezra: BTW, I may have found a defect in kernel. it seems to me that kernel.asm:4745 should test edx, not ecx [20:31] I never told there is a `test ecx, edx` line or smth [20:31] but there is jecx [20:32] *jecxz [20:32] I know. I mean we have neither "test edx" nor "test ecx" in line 4745 in latest trunk kernel [20:32] Oh [20:33] Got you now :-) [20:33] okay [20:33] whats the problem with it, ebox ? [20:33] hidnplayr: no, I just think the code should check if edx, not ecx is zero [20:34] hidnplayr: no, just mike.dld thinks it has to be not "jecxz @f" but "jedxz @f" [20:34] http://ftp.kolibrios.org/users/hidnplayr/chatlog.txt [20:34] I wish there was such an opcode :-P [20:34] jedxz doesnt exist ;) [20:34] mikedld: What are the effects of it checking edx? [20:34] compared to checking ecx [20:35] well, testing ecx is just wrong, since logic implies it should check whether edx is not zero before using it to store a pointer in next line [20:37] this is what it would've looked like if you were writing self-documenting code: https://github.com/ostin-project/ostin-kernel/blob/master/kernel/hid/keyboard.asm#L136 (in case you're interested) [20:38] because this is what I'm doing right now, just sitting and reading it, and finding defects obviously [20:39] thanks for letting us now ;) [20:39] I just launched the SVN tool called 'blame' lol [20:40] diamond, revision 92 ? [20:40] perhaps the changes of Lrz in revision 1494 broke it [20:41] mikedld: I never understood the purpose of Ostin fork BTW. If it's not for profit, then why not fixing the same bugs in KolibriOS rather than in Ostin. If it IS for profit, then why revealing the source code? [20:42] yogev_ezra: mike disagrees with the current direction of kolibrios/some parts of the community [20:43] Lrz in revision #1494: "66 system function have call without shift registers." that explains [20:44] yogev_ezra: simple reasons: I like it being a hobby, not a way [20:44] fuck [20:45] * xvilka want KolibriOS for 64bit, to use it as hypervisor :( [20:45] fuck who? [20:47] yogev_ezra: I like it being a hobby and just-for-fun, I like assembly, I don't like people like Serge pushing HLL compilers-generated code into kernel, I don't like people like CleverMouse working separately w/o presenting the code, etc. peek those which better suite you [20:47] hidnplayr: fuck my fingers tapping wrong keys ;) [20:48] mikedld: ok, so I belive you will not commit a fix to the kolibrios SVN, care if i do it? [20:49] yogev_ezra: oh, and I almost forgot to mention large international community around Kolibri [20:49] hidnplayr: I surely don't mind [20:49] test edx, edx /jz @f should do it, right? [20:49] yep [20:50] at least that is the way I fixed it :) [20:52] mikedld: Agree about Serge. Don't really agree about CleverMouse (she wants to be a virtual but she does write excellent ASM code). What about international community? Since I came to the project, I am promoting KolibriOS internationally and I don't see objections from the team. [20:54] yogev_ezra: personally, i find the 'kernel translations' are uselessly complicating kernel sources. To me, kernel should be english and english only. [20:54] yogev_ezra: I was talking about community as in people involved in project development/testing. those who try it out once in a while or just like to talk are not considered a part of it [20:54] <@xvilka> hidnplayr: +100500 [20:55] yogev_ezra: and from this point of view, you could count non-Russian guys on your fingers [20:55] <@xvilka> it is like translating comments [20:56] <@xvilka> hidnplayr: do you have possible ideas for GSoC? [20:56] i posted them on forum [20:56] yogev_ezra: did you have a chance to read that excellent USB code already? [20:57] for all you know, it's written in C [20:57] or java [20:57] <@xvilka> :D [20:57] yogev_ezra: for me and this project, anything that doesn't have a source code doesn't actually exist [20:59] mikedld: she presented API and source code of drivers. isn't it enough to believe her? [21:00] <@xvilka> i believe her, but still arguing against closed development, then pushing blob [21:00] why would I believe a person I don't know? and even if I would, what if something happens to her next day? [21:01] there is always a possibility [21:02] some people have probably believed diamond, but he's gone [21:02] people come and go quite often, I must admit [21:05] Speaking of wich, anyone seen that new guy, Sergo lately? [21:05] didn't even hear of him :) [21:07] He made a lot of noise, tried to write some code and has been silent since [21:07] kernel or application code? [21:07] <@xvilka> hidnplayr: are you want to be a mentor? good. Pls, tell me your full name [21:08] Jeffrey Something :) [21:08] xvilka: I want to yes, but let me read the rules first ok ? :) [21:08] <@xvilka> just checked :) [21:08] where are they [21:08] <@xvilka> pay 5000$ to winner [21:08] <@xvilka> :P [21:09] I suppose the mentoring person shoud be the one with deep knowledge in area development is going to be done [21:09] <@xvilka> not exactly [21:10] <@xvilka> but with 'some' knowledge, yes [21:10] <@xvilka> http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code/wiki/AdviceforMentors [21:10] well, like if I would attend, I would need someone to ask questions about integrating my code with the rest of the project [21:11] why does that link land me on a site called 'deep.com' ? [21:11] or advice on good or bad practicies [21:11] <@xvilka> it is ok to ask another ppl. Main goal of mentor - keep progress for student/do review of his work (not code) [21:11] oh, mIRC went to the wrong url again :) [21:12] what else would you review if not code? I thought writing code was the main idea :) [21:13] I think it's something like a cheerleader [21:13] hey, ho! write some code! [21:14] :)) [21:14] and it pays 500 bucks [21:14] <@xvilka> yes [21:14] <@xvilka> hidnplayr: and, you can't be student and mentor :) [21:15] sounds like an easy task. is that why you want to mentor, hidn? :-P [21:15] <@xvilka> but if you want write some code - it is better to be student ($5k here :) [21:15] <@xvilka> but! Without mentors noone accept KolibriOS for GSoC 2013 [21:16] mikedld: no thats not the reason :) [21:16] I want a bitch to do the work for me, that's the reason :) [21:16] and google is paying for it [21:16] win-win [21:17] oh yeah, that one is also good [21:27] == dunkaist [~dunkaist@217.197.7.195] has joined #kolibrios [21:28] hey dunkaist [21:29] we were just talking about you [21:30] BTW, I totally support your XFS proposal [21:31] hi guys [21:32] <@xvilka> hi [21:32] <@xvilka> why xfs, btw? [21:32] I chose xfs because I have it on all my partitions except two ones with ext2 (/boot) and reiserfs (/home) [21:33] and I want to read my images and music from kolibri) [21:33] <@xvilka> xfs is effective for large files, i think [21:33] dunkaist: you want to write read support for XFS ? [21:33] I've read the specification already [21:33] hidnplayr: right [21:34] it's fully understandable [21:34] I hav an XFS partition too, but your code would not help me since it's a 3TB one :) [21:34] I can read simple directory listings with hex editor) [21:34] <@xvilka> mikedld: and why? [21:35] mikedld: LBA* and AHCI are out of scope, obviously [21:35] because partitions larger than 2,1 TiB arent supported? [21:35] mikedld: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=kolibri <--- today I improved our international recognition a bit [21:36] btw, what about webp? [21:36] it's a google project, they should rather support it, don't they? [21:36] yogev_ezra: once again, I wasn't talking about "recognition" or whatever. once those people start writing code or reporting bugs, let me know [21:37] yogev_ezra: and as I always thought, Distrowatch is about *NIX, which Kolibri isn't [21:38] should I add myself to that wiki page as a student? [21:38] <@xvilka> dunkaist: feel free, yes [21:38] who will be your mentor? [21:38] dunkaist: no, don't do it!!! [21:38] hidnplayr: xvilka [21:38] it doesn't work like this [21:38] yogev_ezra: *CRYING_GIRL.xfs* [21:39] dunkaist: 1) we submit our application to Google summer of code (only projects, administrators and mentors) [21:40] dunkaist: then, google has to review our submission, and ONLY if they approve us, you can apply and only via THEIR website [21:40] <@xvilka> yougev_ezra: see coreboot.org/GSoC [21:40] dunkaist: and AFTER you apply there and are selected, you can appear on that page on our wiki [21:40] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: at coreboot we have negative exp. previous year - project was rejected [21:41] <@xvilka> due to a lot of undefineds tasks/entries/ppl/etc [21:41] xvilka: but as i read GSoC guidelines, you do not select students until after Google approves your project [21:42] otherwise they can say you've pre-screened the students from beforehand and it's a violation [21:42] <@xvilka> add wannabe word then :) [21:42] <@xvilka> hm, haven't think about that [21:42] <@xvilka> *thinking [21:42] <@xvilka> *wasnt [21:42] <@xvilka> fuck [21:42] 4. How does a student apply? Students can submit their proposals via the Google Summer of Code 2013 site from April 22 - May 3, 2013. We hear almost universally from our mentoring organizations that the best proposals they receive are from students who took the time to interact and discuss their ideas before submitting a proposal, so make sure to check out each organization's Ideas list to get to know a particular open source organization better. In addition to a [21:44] ok, I'll wait a few days [21:44] I just was about pressing "Save page" button [21:46] <@xvilka> hah, you're always can revert changes [21:46] but Google could've indexed the page in the middle :) [21:47] hey, say some words about webp! [21:47] mikedld: They have Haiku and Minix with are both in the same category as KolibriOS, and they both receive positive feedback, so why shouldn't we? [21:47] <@xvilka> KolibriChrome [21:47] and why do you like xfs so much? [21:48] <@xvilka> dunkaist: asking yourself? ;) [21:49] hmm it seems i didnt post my 'ideas' [21:49] xvilka: I'm curious why you support this proposal [21:50] <@xvilka> dunkaist: it is really good for big files, like videos, lossless music and lossless images, databases [21:51] dunkaist: anything making libimg better is good (says initial libimg developer). I prefer XFS because it's closer to my needs (as well as yours, it seems) [21:52] never tried XFS, but it sound interesting for a fileserver [21:52] <@xvilka> hidnplayr: only for _big_ files [21:52] why? [21:52] <@xvilka> for small files reiserfs and ext4 more effective [21:52] <@xvilka> there were some benchmarks [21:53] my music collection is 15 000 flac files (about 40 mb/file) is it interesting ? [21:54] to be honest, I do some kind of DSP as a course work [21:54] <@xvilka> uyes [21:54] wavelets etc [21:55] so any image compression techniques to compare are of interest [21:55] but xfs is more significant in practical sense [21:56] mikedld: don't you want to fix one bug in gif code?) [21:56] I have a file [21:56] wasnt gif code written by somebody who calls himself willow? [21:58] ;;//// gif.asm //// (c) mike.dld, 2007-2008 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////;; [21:59] wow, did I write some of it? :) [21:59] didn't use svn blame though [21:59] well, I was probably the one putting the code into library, but most definitely not the author [21:59] it's for you to remember [21:59] dunkaist: willow is somebody who is long gone, he wrote old gif fileviewer (gif_lite) AFAIK [22:00] it's a pity [22:01] If you understand the code, perhaps you can insert some 'asserts' [22:01] still I could take a look if you provide a testcase [22:01] have no wish to read the spec to fix one bug [22:02] http://ftp.kolibrios.org/users/dunkaist/2post/test.gif [22:03] all the frames should be converted to Image.bpp24 probably [22:03] or add such a functionality to libimg [22:04] so what is the issue exactly? [22:04] I didn't dig into it enough, but here is what I think [22:05] you said it's a bug, not a future request :) [22:05] there are two overlay methods [22:05] next frame discards previous one [22:05] yes, I know about that [22:05] next frame complements previous one [22:06] I think libimg can't handle the second one properly, since each frame is Image.bpp8 [22:06] and there is definite time interval between them [22:06] in fact, kiv just shows the whole image [22:07] so you always see the last frame? [22:08] we should merge k-th layer with all the previous ones or paint them in this manner [22:08] all the frames. iirc [22:08] let me check it now [22:09] yeah well, I mean, the last one is a combination of all of them [22:09] yes, the whole picture at once [22:10] I'll have a look next week and get back to you [22:11] it would be great, thanks! [22:12] so back to GSoC, in the end it's up to you to decide what to work on [22:13] in case you don't know that already :) [22:15] I read both specs and I'm ok with them [22:15] I would rather write xfs for GSOC since it is more presentable for CV [22:16] webp is what I'll write anyway [22:17] but may be several months later [22:17] so, we should be accepted first [22:18] by the time you finish XFS I may possibly finish LBA48 :) but then it'll take time to port from Kolibri to Ostin :( [22:22] but before that I would need to finish FAT32, NTFS and EXT [22:22] sounds like a tight schedule [22:23] tight is good [22:23] at least thats what my GF says [22:24] oh, kolibri behaves very badly on qemu 1.4 fat drives [22:24] I mean -hda fat:/dir/ [22:25] don't know whether it fat32 driver fault or some unsupported vfat features [22:25] just downgraded to 1.2 [22:36] xvilka might be interested [22:36] bedtime for me [22:38] good night, mikedld [22:38] * dunkaist is writing a paper for conference [22:39] "and as the deadline fast approaches..." [22:40] gnight [22:41] dunkaist: what conference? [22:41] <@xvilka> whatsup? [22:41] hidnplayr: a local one, nothing serious: http://www.apmath.spbu.ru/en/research/conference/pm/ [22:42] "Wavelets in Digital Audio Processing: Beethoven Sonatas Clustering" [22:42] <@xvilka> applied math, cool [22:43] xvilka: try "qemu-system-i386 -m 128 -fda kolibri.img -hda fat:/any/dir -boot a" [22:43] looks serious to me :) [22:43] and run any file manager [22:43] hidnplayr: it was meant to) [22:44] xvilka: qemu 1.2 works fine while 1.4 doesn't [22:44] or may be kolibri doesn't handle some 1.4 features properly [22:47] dunkaist: what are the symptoms with 1.4? [22:52] hidnplayr: kfm shows "File system error 0000000011" after few seconds [22:52] <@xvilka> dunkaist: let me update my qemu [22:53] kfar shows empty dir [22:53] xvilka: it's so easy in arch) [22:54] btw how's in English "????"? [22:56] <@xvilka> dunkaist: yep, i'm always rebuilding [22:58] <@xvilka> not sure about correct translation [22:59] it's all about systemd [22:59] <@xvilka> something like anal probe [22:59] yar [23:05] LOL [23:05] dunkaist: Which of those do you mean? http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B4 [23:07] xvilka: so, you like southpark? [23:09] yogev_ezra: this one https://www.linux.org.ru/forum/talks/8170689#comment-8173045 [23:10] https://www.linux.org.ru/forum/talks/8455602 [23:11] dunkaist: Yes, I think "probe" is right here (no need to add "anal") :-) [23:12] <@xvilka> hidnplayr: yes :) [23:12] But the Russian word should not be ????. Isn't it an e-book reader or something? [23:13] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: this is because of DRM, which is obviously _anal_ probe [23:13] <@xvilka> and amazon stuff full of drm [23:13] haha [23:13] the word ???? is a common sense of "vendor lock-in" [23:14] and undocumented "features" [23:14] oh [23:15] Russian jargon then :-) [23:15] undocumented features? my code has lots of them [23:15] most of them make system crash tough [23:15] hidnplayr: does your code send private user information to you? [23:16] <@xvilka> intimate TCP packets [23:16] <@xvilka> this is why he is writing network stack [23:17] yes, they are relayed through your home computer, hope you dont mind [23:19] xvilka: How to see KolibriOS.org website stats? visits/etc.? [23:19] yogev_ezra: http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=15219 [23:19] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: parse weblogs [23:19] xvilka: SoUrcerer gave me a link, but it seems the stats have to be updated manually (?) [23:20] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: yes :[ [23:20] hidnplayr: Ville will ban me if I answer? [23:21] only if you mention kolibriOS :D [23:21] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: there is an autoban script when you mention kolibrios [23:21] unless you send a PM lol [23:21] LOL [23:21] <@xvilka> so, just spell it wrong [23:21] xvilka: really, autoban script? [23:21] <@xvilka> hidnplayr: just kidding [23:21] xvilka: I don't even have a user on that forum. Can you please answer him? that we have everything supported in KolibriOS? [23:22] <@xvilka> oh, i dont want to be banned here [23:22] I used to have one.. but havent logged on for 10 years i believe lol [23:22] <@xvilka> i'd prefer register new virtual user [23:23] ok [23:24] wow, i read over 'x86 assembler programmer' first time, now it actually could be worth some effort [23:24] altough.. programmer who needs to search for a week how to put something on CF card.. :( [23:24] == pfcode [~pfcode@178235037014.elblag.vectranet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [23:26] hidnplayr: hmm... well... he searched how to put MenuetOS on CF card. I also don't find that guide... [23:27] <@xvilka> like on hdd [23:27] so what should i answer? [23:27] 'ask on kolibrios forum' ? :D [23:28] <@xvilka> no, bad answer [23:28] hidnplayr: Hmm... better write: MenuetOS can't be run on Vortex86 because it's 64bit only. You need either Menuet32 which is not developed anymore, or KolibriOS [23:28] <@xvilka> there was little guide howto install kolibrios on hdd [23:28] something like that? [23:32] yogev_ezra: what method do you use on ebox? [23:33] hidnplayr: the usb_boot utility - inst.exe + setmbr.exe [23:34] hidnplayr: worked for me on SD cards and CF cards [23:34] hidnplayr: which method do you use? PXE boot? :-) [23:34] yeah PXE [23:35] but it uses floppy emulation :( [23:35] i need to write native PXE support someday [23:36] So, anybody will answer him? Or I should create a new user just for that? [23:37] PM already sent [23:37] i found my old login [23:37] created "21 Aug 2003" lol [23:39] hidnplayr: many thanks! [23:39] ville has user number 13, he was evil from the start [23:39] hidnplayr: so you started to write in FASM at the age of 10? :-) [23:39] 13 [23:40] hidnplayr: in Jewish religion, 13 is actually a lucky number! [23:40] is that so :p [23:42] yogev_ezra: I was around when KolibriOS formed, unfortunately I didnt knew much about it back then [23:43] While we're on the subject of bad numbers, it is worth noting that the number 13 is not a bad number in Jewish tradition or numerology. Normally written as Yod-Gimel, 13 is the numerical value of the word ahava (love, Alef-Hei-Beit-Hei) and of echad (one, as in the daily prayer declaration, G-d is One!, Alef-Cheit-Dalet). Thirteen is the age of responsibility, when a boy becomes bar mitzvah. We call upon G-d's mercy by reciting his Thirteen Attributes of Mercy, foun [23:46] ok [23:47] <@xvilka> for japanese ppl too, 4 is bad number [23:47] <@xvilka> but not 13 [23:57] haha, i have a post in the FAQ (sticky) of menuetos on flatassembler, I should edit it and add kolibriOS link [00:00] <@xvilka> lol [00:22] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [00:23] <@xvilka> sprry, qemu is not compiler due to some stupid error. [00:23] <@xvilka> i'll fix it tomorrow [00:24] <@xvilka> gtg sleep [00:25] xvilka: 4 is a bad number in Korea too [00:26] There are some buildings that skip both the fourth and thirteenth floor [00:26] <@xvilka> hah [00:26] <@xvilka> they're need use on 1 and 0 [00:28] <@xvilka> gn8 [00:32] good night [00:34] good night to you all, i am going as well [00:47] == You have been marked as being away [09:08] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [09:29] == FreeFull [~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover] has quit [Quit: gotta go] [12:41] == You are no longer marked as being away [12:41] hidnplayr: Is this your daily procedure? 9:00 - wake up. 9:08 - join IRC channel #kolibrios? :-) [12:42] hidnplayr: did you get a reply from the 30+ years ASM developer, I wonder? [12:53] yogev_ezra: for me, it's was 8 o clock [12:53] and no, i dont really have daily procedures [12:53] hidnplayr: Yeah, forgot you're -1hr from me [12:54] no sign of that guy yet, it might take a while. [12:54] his post was for days ago, and i dont think that the board on flatassembler sends e-mail notifications for PM's [12:54] four days* [12:59] hidnplayr: ah. i see [13:06] i think he read the PM but i'm not sure, this forum/board is ancient [13:28] == one[coding]1 [~Miranda@p4FF1F553.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kolibrios [13:30] == one[coding] [~Miranda@p4FF1F7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] [13:30] == one[coding]1 has changed nick to one[coding] [14:16] == mikedld|w [~mikedld|w@80.249.80.105] has joined #kolibrios [15:22] == pfcode [~pfcode@178235037014.elblag.vectranet.pl] has joined #kolibrios [15:39] *hidnplayr* I wonder if PMs work here [15:53] == hidnplyr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [15:53] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] [15:57] *hidnplyr* So the PMs are not working so good, after all? -) [16:05] *hidnplyrl* or are they? [16:06] == No such nick/channel: hidnplyrl [16:52] == spaceraven [~spacerave@95.105.108.4] has joined #kolibrios [17:29] == hidnplyr has changed nick to hidnplayr [17:42] == FreeFull [~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover] has joined #kolibrios [18:54] == webchatuser [5549748d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.73.116.141] has joined #kolibrios [18:55] hello to all, can someone tell me which branch is this http://builds.kolibrios.org/sp/, please? [18:55] webchatuser [5549748d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.73.116.141] requested CTCP VERSION from #kolibrios: [18:57] It should be spanish translation [18:57] thank you hidnplayr [18:57] is it what you were looking for? [18:59] i would post to the forum about more information on the other 2 branches that are in development, but the team already took care of that, and i thought that one more branch existed [19:01] oh ok [19:01] I should work on a Polish translation branch [19:01] Also those should stop being branches one day [19:01] all the languages will be included in the main branch? [19:02] they are already [19:02] oh [19:02] but you have to chose alnguage before compiling [19:02] someone should write a RECOMPILE program [19:02] so those builds are not really branches [19:02] to recompile the kernel with one click [19:02] from within kolibri [19:02] then we could add a CONFIGURE app [19:02] and get a very fast kernel, we could pick drivers that way etc [19:03] future drivers are likely to be separated from kernel [19:03] like current sound drivers, and network drivers in net branch [19:04] and USB drivers [19:04] yes, the difference is in the user interface language only [19:04] modularity is good [19:04] i still like how kolibri is almost a usable OS [19:04] i am pleasantly surprised [19:05] is it planned to make it possible to change language at runtime? [19:05] the* language [19:07] why do you say almost? [19:07] webchatuser: we need a finished new net stack, a mostly working and open source CleverMouse USB stack [19:07] and some UI/app base work [19:07] webchatuser: nothing is planned really [19:07] personally i find no ssh client a problem [19:08] I like UI as is :-) [19:08] asiekierka: personally, i find no browser a problem ;) [19:08] so most development is done to the things that are most needed now [19:08] Functionality is more important right now than UI [19:08] because with a browser you can navigate to a website to download an ssh client :P [19:09] webchatuser: on which forum did you want to post information on the other 2 branches? [19:09] function over aesthetics always [19:09] hidnplayr: we have Webby [19:09] in the general subforum if i recall correctly [19:09] yogev_ezra: I also would find nice if we considered making some kind of gluecode language [19:09] right, that is no real browser... :) [19:09] to handle gluing stuff together with something a bit higher than ASM [19:09] no, in the english subforum [19:09] asiekierka: if you know some programming, writing an SSH client sound like a fun task lol [19:10] hidnplayr: i would probably go the C route to be honest [19:10] and use a hacked up dropbear [19:10] webchatuser: what's your forum username? i respect anonymity but when one name is used on the forums and another in IRC, I can't corellate between them [19:10] i never registered [19:11] asiekierka: KolibriOS was started with ASM in mind. You have 100,000+ operating systems written in C, why do we need one more? Let's keep KolibriOS remain in ASM [19:11] now that i saw that kolibrios was added to distrowatch, i recalled that i wanted to ask about it and saw that there is an irc channel and here i am [19:12] webchatuser: I paid $200 from my pocket to add it :-) [19:12] what? :P [19:12] webchatuser: I am happy that it brought us at least 1 person [19:12] i thought they added it for free [19:12] yogev_ezra: hear that, you've been scammed ;) [19:13] webchatuser: heh. they receive a lot of requests every week. so they said, if you want to add it immediately, you can pay us: http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=submit [19:13] yogev_ezra: I didn't say C for the gluecode [19:13] hidnplayr: no, it's worth the money. this money also gave us a banner with 100,000 impressions. why not [19:13] Was thinking more HLA [19:14] as in High Level Assembler -> ASM with variables and control structures [19:14] i knew about it before distrowatch :P, i was searching for small operating systems in the past and that's how i found hobbyist operating systems written in assembly, including menuetos before i learn about the kolibrios fork through wikipedia [19:15] asiekierka: isnt FASM a HLA then? [19:15] hidnplayr: ...i guess. [19:16] yogev_ezra: i see, but i guess that it's money well spent because people that didn't know about it will learn about it throuhg distrowatch and they have many readers and visitors [19:16] through* [19:16] webchatuser: right. [19:17] webchatuser: and how did you find out about spanish branch? [19:17] it's really a bit sad i can't really help develop the kernel because the only one I can run is not open-source [19:17] :< [19:19] i was looking at the directories in the builds file and directory listing and i saw the sp directory, i didn't know that it wasn't a branch, i remembered only english and russian [19:19] asiekierka: it will be released soon and CleverMouse always kept her promise so far. if you want, you can start with programs. write a simple program. then you can help hidnplayr with network kernel, it is opensourced now [19:20] yogev_ezra: everytime someone says "soon" I feel like they know more than I do, but it's rarely the case [19:21] and good evening [19:21] webchatuser: but how you found the builds directory. they changed the website not long ago and the directory is not mentioned there anymore [19:21] i clicked parent directory :P [19:21] webchatuser: i am asking that because i think our website should provide more info, but maybe if people manage to find the info already, then it's good as is? :-) [19:22] i'm not sure if a simple user would care about it, but power users and other advanced users might want to take a look at it [19:22] mikedld: She is working on KolibriOS faster than you do right now, don't you agree? :-) [19:23] she? there is woman in the development team? [19:23] there is a* [19:24] yogev_ezra: that's not a correct comparison since I don't work on Kolibri at all. regardless, the speed doesn't lead you to time unless you know the distance [19:25] mikedld: that's correct [19:26] webchatuser: we have a virtual that declared him/herself female, I respect his/her right to self-identification [19:26] yogev_ezra: i see [19:27] webchatuser: for some unknown reason, she doesn't disclose any personal information about herself (not even first name or city), yet her code is one of the best our developers ever wrote [19:27] there are very few women that can program in assembly [19:27] webchatuser: after looking at the outcome of her work, i concluded that her real identity is totally not important to me [19:29] yes, it's not important [19:29] yogev_ezra: the rest of the team don't use nicknames? [19:29] doesn't* [19:30] for example people involved in linux kernel development use their real full names [19:30] webchatuser: everyone has nicknames, of course. but everyone besides her disclosed also his/her real names and location [19:31] If you need to know, my real name == my nickname, and I am originally from Ukraine (ex-USSR) and now from Israel [19:32] a true soviet! :P [19:32] in soviet ukraine, nah, the joke doesn't work :P [19:33] i'm from greece [19:34] i know that ukrainians hate greeks but it's ok [19:34] I personally had also to ask the home address and phone number of some developers because I donated some hardware to them. [19:34] I am not Ukrainian, I am a Jew, so it doesn't count :-) [19:34] you mean israeli? [19:35] or those are used interchangeably? [19:35] So we don't have a strict or uniform identity rule like Linux has, but something more relaxed [19:35] but the female member of the team never askedfor any hardware [19:35] asked for* [19:36] i understand [19:36] Well, a Jew is nationality (and religion) while Israeli is a citizenship. So right now I am both a Jew and Israeli heh [19:36] that's interesting point [19:36] she never asked herself, and when i approached her myself and offered to donate, she declined [19:37] she is russian? [19:37] well, she does speak russian on a mother tongue level [19:37] but she could be from any of the ex-USSR countries [19:38] that's true [19:38] do you speak russian? [19:38] of course. russian, english, hebrew, ukrainian. and a few words in dutch and polish. no greek though :-) [19:39] oh, you are a polyglot :P [19:39] i speak english and greek only [19:40] yogev_ezra: you have been a member of the development team from the beginning? [19:41] <@xvilka> even before [19:42] when you started working on a fork and it even had a name? [19:42] before it* [19:42] webchatuser: sadly i am not a member of development team at all. i am involved with the project for 2.5 years but I have only helped with testing and public relations (like advertising Kolibri), and sponsorship (hardware donations) [19:43] webchatuser: the person who created the fork is Mario (Mario79, Marat Zakiyanov), he's still with the project. [19:44] i see, you don't program at all? [19:44] you contribute to the project in a large way though [19:45] webchatuser: i did a lot of SVN commits but those were mainly uploading sources to SVN, without understanding what they do (previously, most of the sources were scattered as attachments on the forums and on various download sites, it was very inconvenient). So when CleverMouse created auto-build script for Kolibri, I brought most of those scattered sources to SVN to place them in auto-build [19:46] you integrated them [19:47] you have never attempted to learn programming? [19:47] webchatuser: thanks for the kind words. i contribute with what i can. i do possess a programming degree but never had a chance to program in real work place, only as part of university courses. [19:47] you're welcome, it's people like you that make the world a better place [19:47] webchatuser: i even know assembly of course (as part of the degree, but that was not x86 assembly) [19:48] those assembly programming skills must be transferable to a high degree [19:49] webchatuser: it's funny that you said that, CleverMouse has a forum signature that says (in Russian) exactly that: "Let's make the world a better place!" [19:49] ha! :) [19:49] free open source software is one way to make the world a better place [19:50] free beer would help too [19:51] but not too much perhaps [19:51] i'll rewrite the kernel for the raspberry pi, just joking, i can't program, yet, nor i own a raspberry pi :P [19:52] i don't drink alcohol at all, but i would buy you a beer, if i had a job :P [19:53] i'm sure that all of you have heard about greece's situation [19:54] I am aware of the situation, as an european citizen ;) [19:54] hah :P [19:55] i'm going to get my friend to test Kolibri on some of his hardware [19:55] namely 2 laptops [19:56] a Thinkpad R51 and an Armada with a PIII@700MHz [19:56] I am going to submit KolibriOS on Kickstarter in 1-2 months [19:57] yogev_ezra: I'm going to donate [19:57] And if the project is successful, then everyone who wants to write in FASM for money, would be able to do it [19:57] Also I recommend indiegogo, yogev_ezra [19:57] first of all it has a better UI [19:57] second of all [19:57] you don't need to meet the goal to get the money [19:57] they will allow people from outside the usa to start a kickstarter project? [19:57] == spaceraven [~spacerave@95.105.108.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] [19:57] What I want to work on for Kolibri is some UI development TBH [19:57] as everyone neglects that [19:58] asiekierka: indiegogo is easier to start project, that's right. but problem is, 10x times less donations than kickstarter. it's a proven fact. i am member of facebook group "Russians on Kickstarter". and there is a lot of discussion about this in that group [19:58] TBH? [19:58] To Be Honest [19:58] to be honest? [19:58] yogev_ezra: actually [19:58] you wont get any donations on kickstarter either [19:58] unless you get a lot of social media movement [19:58] that is if you want to kickstarter [19:58] 1. put it up on hackaday.com [19:58] 2. put it up on reddit [19:58] 3. put it up on osdev.org perhaps? [19:59] 4. send it to russians on kickstarter, kolibrios facebook, main page, all your friends [19:59] asiekierka: this is why i started. [19:59] the more people donate early the more people WILL donate [19:59] -2 put it on facebook [19:59] -1 put it on distrowatch [19:59] :) [19:59] lol [19:59] consider hackaday too [19:59] 0: put it in Google Summer of Code [19:59] they like cool hacks like, well, kolibrios qualifies [19:59] and they have too much money (the people there) [19:59] and then also 1,2,3,4 that you mentioned [19:59] you know, theyre the "lol 3d printer" kind of folk [20:00] so i personally want to focus on the user interface of kolibri [20:00] we should consider creating guidelines for the developers [20:00] so we dont get what we have on linux, or kolibri [20:00] that every app looks completely different [20:00] that ruins the experience [20:00] just like apple does with OS X [20:00] asiekierka: you can do it in our wiki, it would be appreciated [20:00] yogev_ezra: i am considering starting a forum thread for ui design once i get some ideas [20:01] first of all i want to write libjson or libyaml [20:01] as i like the json way of storing information [20:01] and we already have skins, so you change the appearance of all programs at once, in the same time [20:01] and json is very light too [20:01] don't forget mockups :P [20:01] yogev_ezra: that's not enough [20:01] every program positions buttons differently [20:01] various sizes [20:01] etc [20:01] some programs even look completely out-of-place [20:01] asiekierka: you are talking about 'GUI' but you do realise it more then 'design', it making a DECENT library with gui widgets.. [20:01] i think one of the best designed programs on kolibri are eolite and textpad [20:01] hidnplayr: i am [20:02] but we do not need osx/windows-level graphics [20:02] i just want something which can be looked at [20:02] ok [20:02] i'd much rather aim at something like the classic mac os design [20:02] as in it's not stupidly 3d [20:02] bah, eolite, better give me KFAR [20:02] but it's not flat/rushed either [20:02] asiekierka: it's funny that you mentioned Eolite [20:02] why? [20:02] i know it is based on windows xp [20:02] but it does look good [20:03] because it was really created by designer (Leency, Kirill Lipatov) [20:03] no i mean in the appearance, there are guidelines, from apple since the beginning i think and with microsoft since vista [20:03] idea: use some kickstarter money to pay Leency to design some mockup ideas [20:03] as he is a real designer [20:03] he came to our project as a designer, and only then he learned programming. so that's why it has great UI [20:03] webchatuser: yes [20:03] webchatuser: android does since a while after it was made too [20:03] so does iOS from version one [20:04] and firefox os too, i think [20:04] asiekierka: oh, i didn't know that [20:04] i also need to learn assembler [20:04] the only assembler i ever used is 6502 :p [20:04] well i did read some x86 [20:04] but i didnt do a lot in it [20:04] but as i learned the best way to learn programming is to start doing a project [20:04] you must learn the ISA and the syntax [20:04] and learn as you go [20:04] but the sh*t in Eolite is that because he's not a programmer, he wrote it in C-- and not in FASM. and that is bad because he's now the only programmer who writes in C--, and C-- compiler is not open source, etc. etc. [20:05] yogev_ezra: i think we should work on replacing it, then [20:05] i am also considering doing something like delphi did for the toolkit, hopefully [20:05] json files describing the windows [20:05] so you can very easily change the look [20:05] without actually being a programmer! [20:05] development should be possible in other programming languages but only assembly programming should be encouraged [20:06] i should work on rewriting cjson and reading up the json specs [20:06] for an assembler libjson [20:06] and it is possible already, and you do encourage it already [20:06] asiekierka: for now we keep it because i think the focus should be on writing applications that do not exist yet, rather than re-writing existing ones [20:06] yogev_ezra: well you are right [20:07] but that doesnt mean there cant be a side effort to rewrite existing ones [20:07] after libjson i want to work on libhtml [20:07] to parse html code [20:07] in a way that takes small amounts of ram and is standards-compilant - tag names become ids [20:07] that way each tag name is 16 bits, not uh 128 bits [20:08] same with most tag parameters but we can keep those 8 bits [20:08] where 0xff would be string with a string after it for things like "data-whatever" which were added by html5 >_> [20:08] that way we can store html data in ram in a small and efficent way [20:09] and as a bonus i could add a plugin to lighttpd to compress html files to bytecode directly in the server [20:09] that would mean kolibri page loading would be very fast [20:09] opera mini level if we also take care of images [20:09] or even less :3 [20:09] and it would be easy to maintain in ASM - ASM is better at comparing numbers than strings [20:10] "Vortex86MX-eng" this was what i wanted to ask about [20:10] there was no mention of it in the wiki [20:10] and to speed it up further, i could make a table of function pointers for switching between tag parsing so that no stupid if statements are made [20:10] that would make an html viewer very, very, very fast [20:10] <@xvilka> you forgot Hacker News [20:10] also i would probably set the useragent to opera mini so we get very small pages [20:10] xvilka: oh yes hacker news [20:10] i browse it a lot, i wonder how i forgot it lol [20:11] also, i request that someone fixes AIRC [20:11] i typed /join #kolibrios [20:11] it joined "KOLIBRIOS" [20:11] and most #kolibrios messages only appeared in the server window [20:11] not in the kolibrios window [20:11] for irc [20:11] though i am probably going to work on my own irc client anyway because airc is bad [20:11] asiekierka: instead of fixing it i wrote another IRC client, ok? :) [20:12] hidnplayr: you already did? :D [20:12] wrote is past [20:12] i'm working on it yes [20:12] great [20:12] http://board.kolibrios.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2248 [20:12] yes, that's good [20:12] i am also promoting kolibri internationally [20:13] me and pfcode are from poland [20:13] also your irc client looks very good [20:13] do you use any toolkit for the graphics? [20:13] webchatuser: i added this branch to support the computers i donated to developers. after it was all merged into trunk, i removed this branch as obsolete. where have you found a mention of it? i deleted the folder! [20:13] asiekierka: don't highlight me now, im coding [20:13] oh, Box_Lib [20:13] hidnplayr: nice [20:14] yogev_ezra: i have an old binary of that branch [20:14] it's very simple, but it kind of works [20:15] actually two, the floppy and the iso one [20:15] webchatuser: heh, so you downloaded everything from our website? [20:15] anyone's there form Kaliningrad? [20:15] we could hold a kolibricon or something :D [20:15] you must add a scripting engine that is 100% compatible with mirc's [20:15] just joking :P [20:15] webchatuser: he should add a fasm scripting engine [20:15] an api to communicate with the irc client [20:16] webchatuser: I inted to add the colors compatible with mIRC, ok? [20:16] actually it would be nice if someone put the irc connection code in libirc... [20:16] that would be useful too [20:16] so all you scriptkiddies can make IRC bots? :p [20:16] lol :P [20:16] >fasm [20:16] >scriptkiddies [20:17] lol [20:17] http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Hardware_Support#Network [20:17] also fixed that, added the 8168 [20:17] as it's confirmed working [20:17] would be good to know if im missing anything [20:17] yogev_ezra: i downloaded the new_stack, en, and the vortex branch. yes, i kept everything, from now on though, the en and the new_stack branches only [20:17] about that page.. what does 'community drivers' mean? [20:18] drivers/kernels i found on the forums but are not in the main distribution [20:18] or i think are not [20:18] eng* [20:18] i8254x is only supported in new stack [20:18] i8254x and USB 2.0 is on that list now [20:18] bcm57xx is supported in neither [20:18] "community-developed drivers" [20:18] webchatuser: not community-developed [20:18] just not in trunk [20:18] all drivers are developed by the 'community' [20:19] also i8254x is said to work with bcm57xx [20:19] i see [20:20] yogev_ezra: right, now i'm there ready to get the latest builds! i'll run it in qemu [20:20] i wish i had more test plat forms [20:20] platforms* [20:20] right now,* [20:20] but all the hardware i have runs on kolibri :( [20:20] also there is dec21x4x driver for virtualPC (doesnt work on real hardware) and mtd80x driver [20:20] (only for net branch again) [20:20] the software runs on the hardware, not the hardware on the software :P [20:20] also, adding nouveau drm to kolibri might be an interesting task [20:21] webchatuser: no need for QEMU, it runs on real hardware :-) [20:21] oh, and VIA rhine [20:21] see http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/New_stack [20:22] fixed [20:22] yogev_ezra: of course, but by using a virtual machine i don't need a physical machine and i don't have to restart the system :P [20:22] http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Hardware_Support#Network [20:22] added "Only in new stack" [20:23] webchatuser: here's a video of me running kolibrios on Vortex86-based tiny computer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnlA4ijrTBo [20:23] let's see! :P [20:23] asiekierka: not bad.. pcnet is from AMD btw and mtd80x from Myson [20:23] pcnet is called lance in linux [20:25] hidnplayr: fixed [20:25] added a list of network cards based on the russian page [20:25] yogev_ezra: i'm watching it, give me some time [20:26] :) [20:26] asiekierka: in net branch there are also stubs of bcm57xx and forcedeth [20:27] fixed audio list too [20:28] ah yes, forcedeth is in trunk but not net branch [20:28] asiekierka: here's a complete list of what is supported by intel_hda driver (in russian): http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Intel_High_Definition_Audio/ru [20:28] also there is via vt82... sound driver [20:33] yogev_ezra: good demonstration :), i'll watch the other 2 some time later, i saw something that concerns me though, you like small computers and that is very dangerous [20:34] just joking about the dangerous part :P [20:35] yogev_ezra: you wrote this in the comments, "Yogev Ezra 1 month ago Mario,? please come back to the project, I really miss you!", that is mario79? he left from the team for a time? [20:35] And also ensoniq (which is only a stub, but probably should be mentioned) [20:36] webchatuser: yeah, he had a fight with Leency (the designer) and left for a few months [20:36] webchatuser: which is sad [20:36] http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Intel_High_Definition_Audio [20:36] translated roughly [20:37] added link -> http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Hardware_Support#Audio [20:37] they fought about the GUI design? [20:38] webchatuser: GUI design and programming, right. also, they both were moderators once. and fought over moderating too [20:38] asiekierka: you translated that page so fast? [20:39] hidnplayr: search & replace for the table [20:39] it came to a situation that CleverMouse had to de-moderate them both (first Mario, then Leency after a few months) [20:39] and google translate with edits to make it gramatically correct for the rest [20:39] i also shortened the intro text [20:39] it's funny how you can translate pages without knowing a single word in russian :3 [20:39] yogev_ezra: i understand. now they are in talking terms and there are no problems? [20:39] I still think you did it pretty quick.. keeping the table markup :p [20:40] asiekierka: yeah, i also think it's impressive [20:41] asiekierka: maybe we pay you to become our official wikipedia editor? seriously, no joking. if we win kickstarter [20:41] you are very effective [20:41] yogev_ezra: give that money to charity [20:41] they need it more than i do man [20:41] webchatuser: they still fight from time to time but it's less a problem since they are both not moderators anymore [20:41] wikipedia editing is not that hard [20:41] when i get to programming, though [20:42] also does anyone know the controller for hda on intel p35? [20:42] asiekierka: well, you did for the project a lot and you are just few days here. i usually don't join IRC chat so i don't know how long you are here [20:42] i want to add my configuration [20:42] i am here for a few days yes [20:42] i've only joined helping kolibri a few days ago [20:43] asiekierka: use PCIDEV tool [20:43] i'm on linux [20:43] it will tell the vendor ID and device ID [20:43] then LSPCI no? [20:43] at least until hidnplayr gives me a working irc client heh [20:43] alright [20:43] asiekierka: try latest new stack build [20:43] i will soon [20:43] yogev_ezra: do they join the channel? [20:44] you'll have to download and assemble IRCC yourself however :) [20:44] asiekierka: CleverMouse built the USB+network kernel specially for you, did you see it? [20:45] i will as soon as i get back to kolibri [20:45] i did get oldstack to work but itll be nice deving on newstack [20:45] also added my configuration to the hda list which was untested [20:45] 82801I/ALC888 [20:46] adding it to russian now [20:46] webchatuser: you have to ask hidnplayr or xvilka or mikedld on this, i very seldom join myself. i came yesterday because xvilka told me there are new active people so as a public relations coordinator it was right to come :-) [20:46] done. [20:46] yogev_ezra: indeed :) [20:47] yogev_ezra: i plan to drop by a few dollars for kolibri just dont set the goal too high [20:49] asiekierka: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kolibrios/540577610?token=3c6f85e6 [20:50] hahaha [20:50] very funny [20:50] try $1,440 [20:50] if you do that i will be pleasantly surprised [20:50] but in all honesty $720 might be a better goal [20:50] but the draft is nice [20:50] asiekierka: I knew you would love it :-)))) [20:50] oh i know [20:50] $1024 [20:50] hmm, lemme do my grammar check even though my grammar is not perfect myself [20:51] asiekierka: nothing to check, it's not the text we will launch with. i am still waiting for input from developers [20:52] asiekierka: i will make sure to provide you all the link to the final draft, of course [20:52] asiekierka: but if you are so good at editing, then maybe you can help us edit the GSoC page? [20:52] does who joins this channel? [20:53] mario and leency [20:54] do they ever join the channel? [20:55] asiekierka: http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code_2013 [20:56] asiekierka: I guess we can "steal" the text from other projects, like this one: http://wiki.qemu.org/Google_Summer_of_Code_2012 . We just need to fill the contents [20:57] no mario and leency dont join IRC [20:58] but you can find them on the board chat [20:58] I cleaned up the wiki homepage a bit, opinions? http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Main_Page [20:59] hidnplayr: i see [21:01] hidnplayr: looks ok but then need to move all controller names to the supported hardware page, no? [21:01] * [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC'97 AC'97] audio codec support for [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel Intel], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/nForce nForce], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/nForce2 nForce2], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/nForce3 nForce3], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/nForce4 nForce4], SIS7012, FM801, VT8233, VT8233C, VT8235, VT8237, VT8237R, VT8237R Plus and EMU10K1X chipsets. [21:01] all the VT..., etc. Status #kolibriosX [KolibriOS - http://kolibrios.org/ - version 0.7.7.0] [13:09] == yogev_ezra [d4b3891e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.179.137.30] has joined #kolibrios [13:29] == one[coding]1 [~Miranda@p5495E5CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kolibrios [13:32] == one[coding] [~Miranda@p4FF1F553.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] [14:22] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [16:11] back [16:11] edited the features list again to sound less marketing [16:11] but only a bit [16:14] asiekierka: The marketing sh*t can go on the website. I don't agree with it but at least it's logical. Wiki by definition is academic knowledge. There should be no marketing stuff there [16:15] asiekierka: So I hope you won't mind if I revert most of your changes, later? [16:15] yogev_ezra: I already am reverting them [16:15] Slowly [16:16] the changes i want to keep [16:16] "However, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C C], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C++ C++], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Pascal Free Pascal], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth Forth], among other high-level languages and compilers, can also be used in user application development.
" <- separate page called Development [16:16] firstly because almost nobody uses the other languages [16:17] secondly because now we have lua, python, et [16:17] etc [16:17] asiekierka: I hope you're not insulted or something. Nothing personal and I really appreciate your help, and value your work. [16:17] yogev_ezra: I am not [16:17] I am just reverting the changes selectively [16:17] I already reverted the entire header text [16:18] (moved "monolithic preemptive kernel" to features, moving the supported languages as another feature [16:18] and all the text that was in features previously is there in more or less the same way [16:18] i just made it clearer what each one means [16:23] http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Development [16:26] asiekierka: Let me know when you've done with all editing, I will review it then. Take your time (hours, days, no rush). Just important how it looks in the end. [16:26] yogev_ezra: feel free to make edits yourself too [16:26] i will acknowledge them [16:26] and fix the grammar if needed [16:27] asiekierka: I am a bit busy at work right now so can't devote time to that, but I will look at them later in the evening. [16:27] right [17:10] == pfcode [~pfcode@178235037014.elblag.vectranet.pl] has joined #kolibrios [17:59] == tower [~greg@reactos/tester/tower] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] [18:08] == tower [~greg@reactos/tester/tower] has joined #kolibrios [18:12] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [18:16] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [18:20] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [18:24] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [18:37] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [18:44] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [18:59] Channel names begin with # (corrected automatically). [19:01] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [19:05] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [19:15] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [19:18] == hidnplyr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [19:19] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [19:27] i think i have an interesting idea [19:27] get a thinkpad t60p [19:27] replace the screen with qxga (2048x1536) [19:27] and write scaling code and box_lib special code to get a "retina display" effect in kolibri [19:41] == hidnplyr [~hidnplayr@178-118-173-253.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [19:50] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [19:56] == FreeFull [~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover] has joined #kolibrios [20:02] so i decided i need to get a laptop [20:02] not a new one [20:02] a working one [20:02] ThinkPad T60p probably [20:09] hi asiekierka [20:09] hi hidnplayr [20:10] why do you need the laptop? [20:15] hidnplayr: i just need a laptop in general [20:15] i only have an iPad and a PC [20:16] PS: i'm going to edit the page about 'development' a bit [20:16] it's okay [20:16] those are all drafts, collaboration is good [20:19] yeah I more or less know what info is available [20:22] I am editing Kolibri tomorrow now [20:25] its closely related to the russian article [20:25] I cleaned it up [20:25] http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Kolibri_tomorrow [20:26] didn't touch anything from and below Applications [20:26] and will probably rename the page to Ideas in a moment [20:27] ok, then you say what you think about this http://wiki.kolibrios.org/wiki/Development [20:28] i dont consider NTFS write support as important, also i cannot imagine who would want to write it :p [20:29] is it okay if I remove the ridiculous ideas from Kolibri tomorrow? [20:29] you said we should have a more academic tone and dreaming about "MS Windows(TM) emulator" or "Photoshop/Fireworks image editor" makes us sound... [20:29] ... [20:29] yeah. [20:30] there, finished editing "Kolibri tomorrow" [20:31] i like the new development page [20:31] :) [20:31] good job. [20:31] i finished Kolibri Tomorrow [20:32] kolibri tomorrow / ideas is the only page on the wiki which is exception from the "academic tone" rule [20:32] yogev_ezra: But I still think it should be organized and readable [20:32] And not the mess it was before [20:32] perhaps rename drivers to drivers/kernel in kolibri tomorrow [20:32] hidnplayr: ok [20:32] so please don't remove the weird ideas [20:33] yogev_ezra: uhh, "PHP processor" [20:33] "ODCB" [20:33] "ODBC*" [20:33] "ADO" [20:33] otherwise new people come and suggest those stupid ideas again [20:33] *aheeeeem* [20:33] tell them they won't happen, simple [20:33] right now at least we can tell that those ideas were already suggested [20:33] okay i'll add them back [20:34] also some things are already fixed [20:34] such as point five in minor request [20:34] point 8 seems to be worked on by yogev_ezra [20:35] okay, done [20:35] what else on the wiki needs fixing? [20:35] alt+f4 works everywhere i think, somebody should test it [20:35] does not work in the games which don't support alt+f4 [20:36] i'll replace the request [20:36] yes this one you can remove: 8. Better advertise the OS to recruit new developers [20:36] fixed [20:36] yogev_ezra: already done [20:39] asiekierka: do you know what programs dont work with alt+f4 ? [20:39] hidnplayr: a lot of the games [20:39] i dont know more [20:39] ok [20:39] some dont even work with close [20:39] in the menu [20:39] on rightclicking in the taskbar [20:39] yes it's the same cause most likely [20:40] i believe alt+f4 is processed by the taskbar :) [20:41] :p [20:41] nope, minesweeper works with alt+f4 but not with right click->close [20:41] and life2 icon is broken! [20:41] seems nobody ever uses it lol [20:42] i noticed [20:42] i tried to use it 2 days ago [20:43] but i forgot [20:45] it seems the games that dont work are written in c or c++ lol [20:45] i'm not touching that :) [20:45] we should make a gsoc project to rewrite table and eolite [20:45] asiekierka: for table I agree [20:46] asiekierka: for eolite not, for 2 reasons: [20:46] better make a GSoC project 'teach leency to program in assembler' [20:46] hidnplayr: but that already spoils who the student is [20:46] 1) the developer is still not dead :-) so he continues to change it every week, what would the re-writer do? and the developer doesn't know ASM, only C-- [20:47] okay so please teach leency assembler as a GSoC project :-) [20:47] 2) we already have 3 other file managers in FASM, how many more do you need? [20:47] yogev_ezra: KFAR and KFM have horrid interfaces [20:47] what else is there [20:47] so i suggest to spend resources on other things [20:47] well, i guess [20:47] fNav [20:47] i should learn assembler [20:47] does anyone know any good resources? [20:48] asiekierka: whats wrong with KFAR :o [20:48] KFAR has interface exactly like FAR (or norton commander) - this is the program it was derived from [20:48] KFM has interface like Total Commander, the program it was derived from [20:48] yes but it's textmode and the font is bad [20:48] it should be 8x8 IMHO [20:48] to fit with the general tone of kolibri's fonts [20:48] resize the window and be happy [20:48] it's a very advanced program ;) [20:48] fNav is not on SVN but on the forums, you can take a look at it too [20:49] hmm size changes but not font, i'm pretty sure it has multiple font size too [20:49] but really, i am very happy about your excitement on kolibrios, but no need to do double work or rewrite something that's useful [21:01] so anyway [21:01] any good resources on assembler coding? [21:02] I think you can start here, no? http://flatassembler.net/docs.php?article=manual [21:14] I like "the art of assembly" [21:15] http://www.plantation-productions.com/Webster/ [21:17] yogev_ezra: the fasm manual is a must have document, but it doesnt really teach you the basics [21:17] its more in depth about syntax and what instructions are valid and wich not etc [21:20] Changed the request to port Eolite to request to port AC97SND [21:23] asiekierka: you need the non-HLA version btw [21:31] when did mario & serge decided to become mentors? [21:31] heh [21:32] Serge suggested to use a second core for graphics last year, he is the only one who understands how to do it [21:32] so in his suggestion i had to write him as mentor. i used a question mark to denote that he has not officially volunteered [21:33] and in some of the suggestions only Mario probably understands what needs to be done, so i mentioned him, also with question mark [21:33] ok. i will change that to "Potential" [21:51] <@xvilka> 'The Internet is a lot like ancient Egypt. People write on walls and worship cats.' [21:52] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: there can be backup mentors/co-mentors too [21:53] LOL [21:53] <@xvilka> they have no $500 paycheck, but still should help students [22:32] [20:33:27] and in some of the suggestions only Mario probably understands what needs to be done, so i mentioned him, also with question mark [22:32] [20:33:37] ok. i will change that to "Potential" [22:32] [20:52:07] 'The Internet is a lot like ancient Egypt. People write on walls and worship cats.' [22:32] [20:52:59] yogev_ezra: there can be backup mentors/co-mentors too [22:32] [20:53:27] they have no $500 paycheck, but still should help students [22:32] [20:54:23] asiekierka: btw, here was good assembler FAQ on board.flatassembler.net [22:32] [20:55:14] asiekierka: see http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=2530 [22:32] [20:56:42] * yogev_ezra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [22:32] [20:57:17] asiekierka: to run MASM written programs you can always use JWASM - it is FOSS and still actively maintained, at least before migrating to fasm syntax [22:32] [21:08:15] asiekierka: btw, thinkpad t60 is good laptop, you can also install coreboot on it ;) [22:32] [21:27:35] * redblue has joined #kolibrios [22:32] [21:30:13] * yogev_ezra has joined #kolibrios [23:01] == yogev_ezra [d4b3891e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.179.137.30] has joined #kolibrios [23:01] ahem [23:01] it's unstable like sh*t [23:04] yogev_ezra: get a real IRC client [23:06] I am at work. Here I can use only HTTP/HTTPS/SSH/Telnet/FTP protocols [23:06] Oh, Skype too [23:06] All other ports are closed by the network administrator [23:06] This is why I asked XVilka to configure KolibriOS SVN to work via HTTPS but he doesn't want to [23:07] And I also asked to keep the kolibrios.org board chat because that chat keeps logs and is very stable [23:07] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: sorry, but this will require to install apache, which is unacceptable for me [23:07] <@xvilka> due to high load on the server [23:08] <@xvilka> for apache it will require x4-x8 more ram and cpu [23:08] <@xvilka> for same load [23:08] xvilka: I accept that. I just want to show that this chat is not stable as board chat [23:09] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: hm, is it kind of tastes [23:09] <@xvilka> i'd prefer IRC much more, but i'm not going to remove chat, anyway [23:09] it is kind of what works for me and what not [23:10] all these ports are blocked? 6665, 6666, 6667, 6697 (SSL only), 7000 (SSL only), 7070 (SSL only), 8000, 8001 and 8002. [23:10] <@xvilka> IRC is more wide-accepted in international community [23:11] <@xvilka> also it is big subculture [23:11] yogev_ezra: or if its the protocol that is blocked, try connecting through SSL [23:13] <@xvilka> but, whith ssh you could start screen/tmux directly on the server and use irssi on it, as like as subversion, and, possibly vim/emacs directly on the server [23:13] == pfcode [~pfcode@178235037014.elblag.vectranet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] [23:14] xvilka: I know that. I already used IRC when you were still at kindergarten :-) [23:14] <@xvilka> :P [23:14] <@xvilka> i was use irc at kindergarten [23:14] lol [23:14] <@xvilka> *using [23:16] xvilka: at work I have to use Windows 7. And I don't want to fiddle too much with ports since I am afraid our IT department will receive an alert and that could have negative effect on my work here [23:16] so, in other words, no [23:17] <@xvilka> ah, strict itsec policy [23:17] <@xvilka> we could start cryptocat chat :) [23:17] yogev_ezra: you need to test on a co-workers PC ;) [23:17] hidnplayr: lol [23:18] <@xvilka> hidnplayr: or make your admin drunk and run nmap from his computer :) [23:18] <@xvilka> *yogev_ezra [23:19] yep [23:22] xvilka: it doesn't work here. you forgot I am in Israel and not in Russia [23:22] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: it should work even at Arctic [23:23] <@xvilka> kind of motivation/etc [23:24] it doesn't work in countries where it's not common to drink and/or not common to drink at work time [23:24] in Israel it's forbidden to drink at work time (you can get fired for that, even if you do it once) , and not common to drink outside of work time [23:25] <@xvilka> hah, you think it is ok to drink at work time in Russia? [23:25] <@xvilka> of course we have same rules [23:25] <@xvilka> but yes, it is common to drink outside of work time [23:26] <@xvilka> it is just myth, like '?????????, ???????, ????? ? ??????? ????????' [23:26] I know it is, that's why exactly I explained you the situation in Israel [23:27] XVilka: did you see my ping logs? [23:27] <@xvilka> yes [23:30] Did you see the spikes? [23:30] <@xvilka> yes [23:30] <@xvilka> i need to do more analysis, with linked traf log [23:34] no problem. just wanted to know whether you checked it [23:34] it's ok even if you don't find anything, but i hope you do [23:39] ping [23:56] ping [00:06] pong [00:06] pong [00:09] I just check that i still connected, no idea how to do it [00:10] I asked Serge, CleverMouse and Mario - all 3 refused to be mentors [00:10] yeah i'm reading the chat too [00:10] oh ok [00:10] aah, mario "villecam for villepc" lol [00:12] no, really, i don't believe all Ville's screenshots are fake [00:13] so i wonder how 1 person manages to make more than a team of people [00:13] yogev_ezra: his screenshots are not fake [00:13] there must be some catch, like either it's very limited support or he has a team too or he steals code from somewhere [00:13] but his software works only on his PC [00:14] he has just too much time [00:14] hidnplayr: how are you so sure it works only on his PC? [00:14] and he has help from some other people ;) [00:14] yogev_ezra: it will work on some other pc's too, but definately not on all [00:14] i just can't test his build on eBox because it's 32 bit only [00:20] hidnplayr: Did this vortex86 user answer you? [00:21] not that i know of [00:22] <@xvilka> :( [00:23] yogev_ezra: you can test on qemu if you want [00:23] even on 32 bits pc [00:24] hidnplayr: what input would that give me? I want to know how it works on real PC where it can be useful. if it works on a PC where Windows 7 works fast, then who needs it [00:25] I want to know how it performs on a PC where even XP works slow :-) [00:25] well, run it on Qemu :D [00:26] heh [00:57] 1 [00:58] 2 [01:09] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [01:33] 3 [02:12] 7 [02:56] I updated the main page: http://kolibrios.org/en/index.htm [03:11] == one[coding]1 has changed nick to one[coding] [10:03] == yogev_ezra_at_GF [546f313c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.111.49.60] has joined #kolibrios [10:34] == yogev_ezra_at_GF [546f313c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.111.49.60] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [11:13] == FreeFull [~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] [11:44] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [12:31] yogev_ezra: here? [12:48] hidnplayr: now yes [12:50] i think you should really redo the video you now placed on main page :) [12:50] with latest nightbuild [12:51] hidnplayr: I think you are right [12:52] perhaps even add voice later in editing, then you can make it perfect ;) [12:53] hidnplayr: But I have a problem to do it. 1) This was a meeting room in a place where I work. I actually recorded the video 1.5 years ago. Now my company recruited many new employees and they didn't have place to seat them, so they re-purposed that meeting room into workplace for employees [12:54] hidnplayr: 2) I sold the eboxes (3300MX, 3350MX etc) and the customers burned them down, I already complained about that, remember? [12:54] you dont have any ebox left? [12:54] so I need to find a meeting room to record the video, and buy ebox-3350MX if i want to record it with ebox [12:55] I have a few pieces that i managed to make 1 ebox with it [12:55] lol [12:59] and i have never done voice over and my accent is awful as you might have noticed, so i doubt I would be able to do a better video [13:00] we probably can hire someone [13:03] or have an ehtouisiast do it? :) [13:04] get a load of this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSe9oOOTEJA [13:05] he's awesome [13:11] do we know any native english speakers? [13:11] hidnplayr: but what about the text I edited, I hope I didn't make it worse at least? what do you think? [13:12] oh, let me check [13:12] hidnplayr: the son of art_zh, killerkirill, is a native English speaker, and knows about KolibriOS [13:13] the markup of the text looks like... crap [13:13] and art_zh himself offered his son's help to me a few months ago. but when i accepted the offer, art_zh disappeared, never replied [13:13] i even offered to pay or something, but he doesn't answer. don't know what happens in his head [13:14] why do you wwant to throw money at everything/everybody :p [13:14] hidnplayr: what do you mean by "markup looks like crap"? can you please specify? [13:14] hidnplayr: because I want things to get moved, and money is usually a good motivator to move things [13:15] the text looks like you took a bag of scrabble letters and thrown them at a wall [13:15] eg it looks like a newspaper [13:15] hidnplayr: of course, best contributors are volunteers because they stimulate themselves to do the work, it's better stimul than money even. but we have too fee volunteers [13:15] crappy one [13:16] hidnplayr: but is it after my edit? or was it like this even with previous version of the page? i don't understand... [13:16] the addition of the video made it worse i think [13:17] but thats just because there is less space on my screen now [13:17] oh hmm [13:18] what resolution do you have? [13:18] check the Russian version of the page. I did not touch it. Does it look better than English version? [13:18] 1366*768 or something [13:19] nah its all text too, even worse now that i cant understand it [13:19] ROFL [13:19] I optimized it for 1280x1024. seriously you can't support all resolutions in 1 design? [13:20] i mean, dont you like this page more: http://returninfinity.com/baremetal.html [13:20] I agree I am not a designer. [13:20] i think it's what asiekierka was aiming for on the wiki too [13:21] I like BareMetal page more but I hate black (or other dark) backgrounds [13:22] it's hard to read [13:22] i'm talking layout [13:22] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: just choose ready mediawiki design, i'll install it. Though, i suppose, it will need some php-coding :( [13:23] xvilka: I am Jack-of-All-Trades, which means I know about many things but I am awful at performing any of them [13:24] <@xvilka> hm [13:24] xvilka: Leency is much better than me at this. The problem with him is he never consults and never accepts feedback [13:25] <@xvilka> sounds like 'I've seen things that you, people, wouldn't believe' :D [13:25] xvilka: redesigning that front page took me around 2 working days, while the changes were so minor that for a person like Leency it could have taken 2 hours I think [13:25] xvilka: what are you talking about, in "wouldn't believe"? [13:26] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: it is just meme :) [13:27] <@xvilka> from Blade Runner [13:31] <@xvilka> yogev_ezra: i was inspired by your words [13:31] <@xvilka> 'i know about many things' [13:31] <@xvilka> just a joke, ignore me [13:32] == one[coding] [~Miranda@p5495E5CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] [13:45] hidnplayr: I don't think that guy from Haiku YouTube video can help us soon: http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kent_county/Man-who-killed-Moped-driver-sentenced [13:49] Unless it's different Matt Nawrocki of course [13:51] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] [13:51] <@xvilka> may be record something with moder music, girls and dances? [13:52] <@xvilka> that could improve KolibriOS rate :D [13:52] I can place boobs on the main page, that would surely improve the rates. [13:54] <@xvilka> :D [13:55] == hidnplayr [~hidnplayr@d51A59226.access.telenet.be] has joined #kolibrios [13:56] hooray, windows crashed! [13:58] LOL [13:59] [13:45] hidnplayr: I don't think that guy from Haiku YouTube video can help us soon: http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kent_county/Man-who-killed-Moped-driver-sentenced [13:49] Unless it's different Matt Nawrocki of course [13:59] yeah i got the link [13:59] [13:51] <@xvilka> may be record something with moder music, girls and dances? [13:52] <@xvilka> that could improve KolibriOS rate :D [13:52] I can place boobs on the main page, that would surely improve the rates. [13:54] <@xvilka> :D [13:59] so is he in jail or killed? [14:01] doesnt seem like same guy to me [14:02] in jail, but it could be another Matt Nawrocki [14:02] boobs may work in the real world, but not on the internet, too much competition [14:04] lol [14:10] do you need any help? [14:11] iki, website [14:11] that is [14:11] asiekierka: sure, if you have good spoken English? [14:11] good enough [14:11] minor grammar errors but thats normsl for nonnatives [14:12] I think my read/write English skills are close to mother tongue, but my speaking skills are moderate and I have an awful Russian/Jewish accent [14:12] so just watch my video that I posted on the updated main page of KolibriOS website, and if you can do better, we would value that very much [14:12] http://kolibrios.org/en/index.htm [14:13] my voice sucks a bit but ill see about it [14:13] when back home - 2h [14:14] <@xvilka> asiekierka: you could use synthesized voice ? [14:14] or do some heavy drinking, smoke a cigar, and your voice will be excellent [14:15] asiekierka: Also, if you can move diamond's articles to our wiki, that would be greatest help. because he has left the project in October 2010 and since his articles are hosted on his website, noone can fix or improve them [14:16] or guarantee that they will be around [14:16] I have access to the sources on his website so I can send you the sources, if it's easier for you [14:16] hidnplayr: that's right too [14:17] xvilka: nah about synthvoice, also ok [14:17] yogev_ezra: id have a list of all of them as files thst way so asiekierka@gmail.com please [14:18] asiekierka: ok in 1-2 hours then [14:42] == tower [~greg@reactos/tester/tower] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] [15:11] == tower [~greg@reactos/tester/tower] has joined #kolibrios [16:03] damnit, why do keyboard have so many keys [16:03] cleaning them is a full time job [16:09] hidnplayr: try air blower or baby tissues [16:09] baby tissues can clean anything :-) [16:13] == one[coding] [~Miranda@p5495E3FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kolibrios [16:23] 1 [16:27] haha [16:27] i'm talking about a 25 year old keyboard i found [16:27] it has mechanical keys, pretty badass [16:27] no rubbery cheap shit [16:29] oh. from your recycling factory friend? [16:29] nah i had it laying around here all the time [16:29] the day befor yesterday i realised it's pretty badass, i should clean it and use it [16:30] (sinc i'm spending more and more time behind my desktops lately [16:30] keys are done, now the pcb (it has a pcb!) [16:31] heh enjoy :-) [16:36] hey [16:36] https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/27131_592064714138966_148374117_n.png just a few days away! :3